Retarding ign. timing in efi turbo setups with distributor

Here's where you post EFI and TURBO conversion, configurations, and questions related.

Moderators: AE25, BOBLOOK, pufito18

Retarding ign. timing in efi turbo setups with distributor

Postby slaus » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:47 pm

Can a stand alone computer (Haltech, Microtech, etc) be used to retard ignition timing in like a turbo 3tc steup with distributor or will you still have to get a programmable ignition box the pull out the timing?
Last edited by slaus on Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
slaus
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:44 pm

Re: Retarding ignition timing in turbo setups with distribut

Postby NME308 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:25 am

Hi there slaus,
You most certainly can use a standalone ecu for timing control! :P

I have used a motec M4pro on my old blow through carbed turbo chevy for controlling timing. It also controlled the water meth, boost control, and did some data logging while it was at it! Just don't wire the injector outputs to anything if you are still carbed. :lol:

My blow through turbo celica had an old ecu plus an MSD6al analogue box for a while before moving to the MSD6al-2 programmable ignition. In all honesty if a cheap but capable ecu came up for sale I would ditch the programmable MSD and go back to an analogue MSD6al because an ecu 'should' have 3D mapping which is FAR more capable for a decent ignition curve for street applications at least.

Cheers,
Jason
NME308
 
Posts: 187
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:40 pm

Re: Retarding ignition timing in turbo setups with distribut

Postby slaus » Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:41 pm

Oh what i meant to ask was if there is a computer for fuel injected turbo setups that will control ignition timing on stock distributor?

Or do you have to run a separate ignition box like the MSD 6AL-2 programmable if you have the stock distributor?

Thanks
slaus
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:44 pm

Re: Retarding ignition timing in turbo setups with distribut

Postby BOBLOOK » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:28 pm

The microtech Lt series can be preconfigured to run distributer ! Disadvantaged of microtech if the ECU are configured for run 4 ciol you can't wire it to the single ciol before to have it reconfigured ( Send back to the factory Australia this cost lots of $$$


I assume the most nowadays ecu can run distributer aswell.

You can run Fuel only ecu i and use standalone ignition boxes msd 6 serie with retard box

Toyota1515 wrote:You guys drawn in a glass of water, it is as easy as this steps here!

Lock dizzy, and set it up for advanced operation at normal boost
Image



MSD 3 stage retard control with the MSD 6AL, and adjust accordingly for high boost, 2 step, start, of out of the hole operation.
Image


If you arent running massive boost you can run the msd 6btm MSD 6btm

slaus wrote:Oh what i meant to ask was if there is a computer for fuel injected turbo setups that will control ignition timing on stock distributor?

Or do you have to run a separate ignition box like the MSD 6AL-2 programmable if you have the stock distributor?

Thanks
The day we learn to think
User avatar
BOBLOOK
 
Posts: 2262
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:32 pm
Location: Under a bonned in Netherlands.

Re: Retarding ignition timing in turbo setups with distribut

Postby BOBLOOK » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:31 pm

The day we learn to think
User avatar
BOBLOOK
 
Posts: 2262
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:32 pm
Location: Under a bonned in Netherlands.

Re: Retarding ignition timing in turbo setups with distribut

Postby NME308 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:27 am

Hi Slaus,
As Boblook said just about any aftermarket ecu will happily control timing with a factory distributor still in place.

In my examples above the $300 MSD product would just be replaced by a $30 ignitor by Bosch or similar. In reality the MSD is just serving as an expensive ignitor in my case. You can use all the ignition mapping features of your ecu with a distributor including boost retard. When I was using an ecu I was not using any MSD retarding devices but purely using the ecu timing control/mapping.

You can use an ecu for injection exactly the same configuration as I used with my blow through setup while replacing MSD with common ignitor if you are happy to use batch fire injection. This does not require cam sync signal to be somehow grafted on to the 3TC but rather allows the ecu to relax and assume the dizzy will send spark to the correct cylinder and the injectors are all fired once per crank revolution. :lol: On the other hand you can still go as crazy as you wish if you supply a sync signal and setup sequential injection and still keep a factory distributor and use all the ignition timing mapping of the ecu.

Cheers,
Jason
NME308
 
Posts: 187
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:40 pm

Re: Retarding ignition timing in turbo setups with distribut

Postby BOBLOOK » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:17 pm

Got you point Jason but The MSD charge the ciols more rapidly then stock ignitors does ?
The day we learn to think
User avatar
BOBLOOK
 
Posts: 2262
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:32 pm
Location: Under a bonned in Netherlands.

Re: Retarding ignition timing in turbo setups with distribut

Postby NME308 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:28 pm

Boblook I would most definitely recommend an MSD for better/stronger spark if using single coil & distributor. I made the ignitor reference partly to show an ecu is not dependant on an MSD product for timing control when using a distributor - the ecu rules the roost!

Cheers,
Jason
NME308
 
Posts: 187
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:40 pm

Re: Retarding ignition timing in turbo setups with distribut

Postby BOBLOOK » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:40 pm

Oh my bad my English understanding is sometime little crooked :lol: :lol:

NME308 wrote:Boblook I would most definitely recommend an MSD for better/stronger spark if using single coil & distributor. I made the ignitor reference partly to show an ecu is not dependant on an MSD product for timing control when using a distributor - the ecu rules the roost!

Cheers,
Jason
The day we learn to think
User avatar
BOBLOOK
 
Posts: 2262
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:32 pm
Location: Under a bonned in Netherlands.

Re: Retarding ignition timing in turbo setups with distribut

Postby slaus » Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:40 pm

Thanks Jason and Bob!!

it's just that i was told that if i'm going fuel injected with the 3TC using the stock distributor, i would have to either just lock the distributor or use a separate ignition box to pull out timing with boost, since the ECU would not be able to control the timing using the stock distributor.

My next question is, in a 25+ psi boost application, how does locking the timing at say 28 degrees weigh against pulling out timing as boost rises from a horsepower standpoint?
slaus
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:44 pm

Next

Return to Turbo and Engine Management

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest